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Currently in orbit, the Emirates Mars Mission Hope spacecraft will spend two years gathering crucial science data on the planet's weather and climate systems. In this episode of Buff Innovator Insights, we’ll learn from engineering and management team members—and married dynamic duo—Heather Reed and Pete Withnell about the extraordinary international collaboration that made this mission possible and more terrestrial effects of the mission on their family.

Terri Fiez

Hello. I'm your host Terri Fiez, Vice Chancellor for Research and Innovation at the University of Colorado Boulder. Welcome to Buff Innovator Insights. This podcast features some of the most innovative ideas in the world and introduces you to the people behind the innovations from how they got started to how they are changing the future for all of us.

Today, we'll meet Heather Reed and Pete Withnell, Engineering and Science team members for the Emirates Mars Mission project. Since 2014, Reed and Withnell have worked side by side with colleagues at the Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics or LASP and dozens of scientists and engineers from the United Arab Emirates on this extraordinary international collaboration. We'll hear about Heather Reed's remarkable journey from a small town in South Dakota to CU Boulder education, and eventually a career in space exploration at LASP. We'll learn about Pete Withnell's evolving interest in physics, engineering and space, which also brought him to Boulder and LASP.

Since they met and married along the way, we'll also hear how the years' long project became a part of their lives as a family. Not only did the pair work on the mission from beginning to end, we'll also hear about the family's unconventional road trips, the colleagues and friends that became so important to them personally and professionally, and how the improbable COVID pandemic made the mission's success that much more remarkable. Let's meet Heather Reed and Pete Withnell. Hi, Heather and Pete. Thank you for joining me today.

Pete Withnell

Hi, Terri. It's a pleasure to be here.

Heather Reed

Yeah. Thanks for inviting us.

Terri Fiez

So, you both had interesting paths to Boulder. Heather, you grew up in New Underwood, South Dakota, population, 514, and graduated from a high school class of 14 and notably as valedictorian. Pete, you spent your early years in Long Island and England before settling in Indiana. So, first, Heather, can you share with us what connected you to Boulder in your teens and how that eventually brought you to CU Boulder to get your bachelor's and master's in engineering?

Heather Reed

Yeah. So, my high school led by my band director, the eighth grade class, I was part of the high school band at that time, we all came to Elitch Gardens to perform at Elitch's on one Saturday. So, that was a Denver trip that encouraged us to go see a different and much bigger city. When we were at Elitch's, my friend and I met someone who was actually a freshman at the University of Colorado, and he had a Wright Scholarship from NASA, and he was working for UCAR. So, at the time, he was working on a NASA program, supporting scientists, doing engineering. That was probably the first time I came to understand, oh, someone that young could be in a space industry, and look, they're doing this inside of a school environment. So, that was pretty exciting to me. I said, "Oh, I like math. I like engineering, and maybe I should check this out."

So, he and I ended up being pen pals for the rest of my high school career. As he was getting his undergrad and grad degree, and at that time, I thought, okay, well let me just go see what engineering is. So, I did look into aerospace engineering, and CU was one place. There was a place in Florida, a couple other places that I checked out, but it was just an easy transition for me to come so close from South Dakota to Boulder. I had a few family members in the Denver area, and I really wanted to come here for aerospace engineering. So, that's how I ended up here and eventually working on NASA and other space-related programs.

Terri Fiez

Great. Pete, you clearly had an interest in aerospace having earned your private pilot license at age 18, and then your interest in how things worked attracted you to get a degree in physics at Indiana University. What brought you then to Boulder?

Pete Withnell

Yeah. So, great question. As you said, I had an interest early on, really infused by my scientifically inclined parents to pursue, at that time, scientific interests in physics seemed to be the broad based one that matched me, but when it came to then moving onto my master's degree, I became aware of this topic called aerospace. That really mixed my interests of aviation and space really perfectly, but it was still very unknown to me at that time what that really meant. Searching around the country, the University of Colorado at that time, that was back in 1990, even then had quite an outstanding reputation in the aerospace realm. I joined then the Center for Aerospace Structures, which also seemed to meld very nicely with my interests of mechanical engineering and aerospace.

Terri Fiez

You had a interesting experience where you joined another student in a class that was spacecraft design, and that really changed your path forward. Can you describe that?

Pete Withnell

Yeah. It had a profound effect on my career. I was obviously a graduate student at the time. As you said, one of my friends there was going to a class, a class about how to design spacecraft. That sounded absolutely fascinating to me. So, I joined him for a class session and was completely hooked. The course was being held by Dr. Charles Barth. The material was being taught at that time by Mike McGrath who ultimately became my boss and supervisor for many years after I ultimately joined LASP, the Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics, mainly because of that in-class experience that I had. So, yeah, it had a fundamental change on the course of my career.

Terri Fiez

So, that's always an interesting impact that teachers have. Pete, I know the highlight for you working at LASP has been seeing the full arc of projects from conception to design, to implementation, to launch, to operations and end of life.

Pete Withnell

Yeah, absolutely. I feel like I have been fortunate to be in that full arc as you described it on multiple programs and the latest one, obviously being the Emirates Mars Mission. I was, again, very lucky to be working with Mike McGrath at the time when this mission just had less than a handful of employees.

Terri Fiez

What is the Emirates Mars Mission?

Pete Withnell

So, it's important to recognize that the Emirates Mars Mission is a unique adventure from either perspectives of the UAE or the University of Colorado. So, first and foremost, the program is aimed at infusing interest and focusing effort within the UAE in their space sector. The UAE is very well aware that they have, up to this point in time, the majority of their wealth has come from their natural resources, and they have a very serious interest in becoming a knowledge-based society.

So, quite wisely, they set out a very ambitious program as a vehicle to do just that. We at LASP, we were very interested in that. That was inspirational to be that kind of partner. So, it mixed very well with who we are. Obviously, an academic institution, our very fabric is one that's built on mentorship and education. We clearly had a lot of what it took to do a deep space mission, programs like MAVEN behind us, and so that's really how the program began.

Terri Fiez

Then, also as they thought about it from their side, weren't they looking at celebrating their 50th anniversary for the country?

Pete Withnell

Yeah. So, that really, and as you said, Terri, that set a very serious and tight deadline for the overall program. The UAE is a unification of seven emirates, and that unification happened 50 years ago, 51 years ago now. So, it was very important for them symbolically to show that they had developed to a country that had the prowess, the ability to send a spacecraft to another planet and for that spacecraft or that probe to do, perform meaningful science. That's one of the most ambitious things a country can do.

Terri Fiez

What is the scientific work that you hope to get done up there that's different than maybe what others have done around the Red Planet?

Heather Reed

Right. So, the science team worked early on to set an orbit that was unique from other orbiters that have visited Mars. So, at the altitude that we are orbiting, and it's a circular orbit, we get to see the seasons change and the days go by. So, then we have this dataset that's from three different wavelengths of instruments, the ultraviolet, the visible and the infrared, and we can say what's going on with water vapor, with different constituents in the atmosphere, with what we're seeing as far as clouds forming. In some ways, it's thought of as like a weather satellite. You could say that. It's not quite on the ground type of observations, but you certainly can see clouds and dust, dust storms and clouds move across portions of the planet and with what frequency and what timescale that happens.

Terri Fiez

Heather, you also played a critical role in this project. I guess, if Pete was employee number one or two, you were employee number three on this project. What were some of the highlights for you working at LASP on this project?

Heather Reed

Yeah. So, for me, this project and the inspiration point, I think, for many people was the promise of this project, engaging with the Emiratis in this venture together. At the very, very beginning, I would say to myself, "How did we get here, and why are we doing this? What if we fail? I can't believe we decided to say yes to this," because there was unknown in front of us, but that passed. The more successes we got under our belt and the more development went successfully, the more confident I think I was, and the team started to integrate really well. We got to walk that path with them.

There were a lot of learning experiences on the LASP's side because LASP, as a group, had not designed a mission and carried out a spacecraft implementation that's interplanetary. We've done pieces of it in the past and been responsible for much of it but not sort of as this lead institution across all of the segments. So, people were in different positions they hadn't been in before. So, everyone was really learning something together. It ended up being just an amazing experience.

Terri Fiez

That's great, and in addition to being an amazing experience, I think it was very much a family affair. So, the two of you met, what, in 1995 when Pete interviewed you and then married in 2000. I know this EMM project had to be something that was table conversation at the dinner table for your family. How do you think this has impacted your kids as they've taken many trips over the last seven years to UAE with you and been part of this team and very much a family affair?

Pete Withnell

I mean, it really has been. For our two kids, it was really impossible not to be an integral part of the program. As you said, every time we traveled to the UAE, they were with us. I will always be incredibly grateful that they have that opportunity. I think they have such a greater view from a global aspect very early. The fact that our children have had the opportunity to mingle and make friends with the Emiratis have given them just a completely different impression, I hope, of what it's like to be in an Arab country.

Heather Reed

Of course, one of the questions is always, when are we going back to Dubai because we haven't been there in about two years? That was our plan. So, everybody's sort of antsy to get back to Dubai because just enjoy the atmosphere and the people in that region that we met and spent time with.

Terri Fiez

Yeah. So, clearly, a big part of this project was building the comradery among the teams that were both state side as well as in the UAE. Heather, can you share your early experience in coordinating the instruments during a trip to Berkeley?

Heather Reed

Yeah. So, one of my first activities on EMM was to go to Berkeley, where we're going to talk about the concept of the UV instrument. That was going to be the first time that I met some of the team from the UAE. So, there was sort of a ladies' contingent. Khuloud and Sarah and Nour were all there. We were there talking about the technical details in the meeting room, but at lunch, we really got to know each other, and we're sharing photos of personal activities. One of the ladies had just gotten married. Someone else had just had a new dress made for Eid. So, we're really sharing what our interests were and what our families look like and what our daily life was. That was very enjoyable and just really knew from the start that it was going to be easy to engage and share each other the common interests that we all had.

Terri Fiez

It all looks so easy now, and I think we almost forget we were in very restrictive COVID conditions during the last year and a half. I know you both talked about one of the things that you wish you could have been part of is to be at Dubai when the launch was happening, when the insertion was happening. Heather, talk about that and what that was like on their side, and what would you have liked to have been a part of there?

Heather Reed

Yeah, well, I know the excitement for launch was really high on launch day for all parties. I think that everyone was glued to their TV, watching what we could of the launch site and some other viewing opportunities we had because we just wanted to go. It did get delayed by something like, what, seven or 10 days?

Terri Fiez

Yeah.

Heather Reed

Yeah, before it actually launched, so we're also waiting with bated breath, but then during Mars orbit insertion, which was in February of this year, the Emiratis, each of the emirates took one of their monuments that was popular in the Emirates and for each of them, lit them up red. So, they had sort of an inspirational theme going on for days before this started. It was called when UAE goes red, and this was in support of the Red Planet and getting there. If everyone just became really aware, the Prime Minister was talking about it and a lot of what the leadership of this program, the project director had been saying was, "Look, Mars is a 50/50 opportunity. You might be able to get there, but you might not make your final intention, either a landing or an orbit insertion," and that's what we're in. We're in the orbit around Mars.

So, that was super successful but also palpable that there was so much that they had put into this and our team in making this a success that what would have been really cool for me is there's something ... Dubai Park is near the Burj Khalifa, and they had projections. The Burj Khalifa had different projections plus different lighting going on there. We could see the people talking there because that was also being aired and just so exciting. You just get tingly because also, you have these few minutes of what we call terror because there's such ... There was, at that point, 12 minutes delay between when something was happening on the spacecraft, which was automated and when we got the signal back, so we just really had to sit there and wait based on a lot of practice and trying, hoping that this was going to make it in. It did, and it was amazing. So, I'm clear that we all shared a tear at the same moment, but I really wish I could have shared the hug as well. That was the difference for me.

Terri Fiez

That's great. So, you're collecting all this data. We're going to learn so much about Mars. How do you see this being used in the future? Do you think we'll colonize Mars?

Pete Withnell

I think that as we gather information about Mars, any and all of it could be useful in future colonization plans. So, people smarter than me can make that link. Something that's perhaps or even closer to home however, is that there is very strong evidence that at one time. Mars's atmosphere was actually much more similar to Earth's. There's evidence of flowing water. There's evidence that it actually had a relatively thick atmosphere. So, something drastically changed, and there's processes at work that I think we're only starting to understand. So, in as much as those could be mapped to this planet, now, I think that is also a very tangible aspect of what EMM was contributing.

Terri Fiez

So, now you've both been part of this very amazing project, right, and a very unique opportunity including your kids being part of that indirectly. I'll just ask each of you, given this experience, and you still have a lot of your career ahead of you, what do you want your legacy to be?

Pete Withnell

Yeah, I'll jump in there and say this is, I think, that as fascinating as this program was technically, the fact that it's brought two countries closer together, it certainly brought two teams very much together. We have lifelong friendships across continents coming out of this program. Now, that means something that. Space has often been that vehicle for international partnerships. This program is such an example of that. So, to have been personally involved in this program that had this ambassadorship kind of aspect to it, I will be very fulfilled to think that that was part of my legacy, but there is a continued relationship that moves on into the future. That could be profound.

Heather Reed

Yeah. So, from my point of view, EMM has been this amazing experience that is ... It feels like a pinnacle, but I hope it isn't to my career and other things that I do related in this field in science and space, but I'd have to say that one thing it continued for me is something that LASP as an organization has done always and has attracted me and kept me there, is that we're always building on the workforce of the science community in that there's always someone new in the lab that's a grad student, undergrad, or in this case, an entire team, a group of people who are just ready to learn and in this case, learn in different ways or maybe specifically brand new things that they had not thought of.

So, I hope that part of my legacy is just being a facilitator and an enabler in that way, where when they were learning, they really got a lot out of it and that they enjoyed the opportunities they had in front of them and how that went with their experience with the team because that's pretty exciting for me. That's an aspect of my job I enjoy quite a bit.

Terri Fiez

That's great. Well, thank you both for joining me here today. I think this is a really fascinating conversation, and congratulations on a successful launch and insertion into the Mars orbit. We're watching, going forward, for the exciting projects that you're going to work on.

Pete Withnell

Thank you, Terri. It's been really fun. Thank you for the opportunity.

Heather Reed

Thanks, Terri. It's really enjoyable talking to you today.

Terri Fiez

I hope you enjoyed today's conversation with Heather Reed and Pete Withnell of LASP, an Engineering and Science team members for the Emirates Mars Mission project. To learn more about LASP and the Emirates Mars Mission, please visit . For more Buff Innovator Insight episodes, you can visit colorado.edu/rio/podcast. I'm your host and Vice Chancellor for Research and Innovation at CU Boulder, Terri Fiez. Thanks for joining me for this episode of Buff Innovator Insights. We'll see you next time.